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A question about new behavior that’s a minor irritation…

Discussion in 'Support' started by mathewsdw, May 16, 2011.

  1. mathewsdw

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    First off, I will start out by saying that I’m a command-line Geek. I seldom, if ever, use the “Start Menu” to start an application, I have aliases defined for all of the applications (Word, Excel, Outlook, Winamp, Visual C++, etc. etc. etc. ) I use on a regular basis and I start them all almost exclusively from the command line. Also, there are many times when I want two (or sometimes even more) Take Command windows open because I find Alt-Tab (which I use habitually) much easier to do on a “regular” basis then clicking on a Take Command “tab”. (I need to add that in many cases Take Command tabs are adequate.) (You could also actually call me somewhat mouse-adverse, and I wouldn’t disagree very strongly.) Well, getting to the point, I am used to entering the command “Start TCmd” to start a new, separate, instance of Take Command, and that still works except that that single command now also starts a new, totally separate and standalone instance of TCC, which, while not a major problem I must admit, is quite annoying, and this seems to be a new (since I am not doing anything now I haven’t traditionally done in the past) behavior of Take Command. (Yes, it’s easy enough to shut it down, even without a mouse, but it’s still inconvenient.) And I truly don’t believe I am doing (or have done) anything differently than any previous version of Take Command. (TCC 12.10.66 Windows 7 [Version 6.1.7601]).
     
  2. rconn

    rconn Administrator
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    There are a couple of ways to switch between TCMD tabs using the keyboard. (Alt-Left and Alt-Right, and Ctrl-Tab.)

    Not reproducible here, and Take Command definitely does not do that on its own. You may have something in your TCSTART file (or an alias for START). (Also, the "START TCMD" by itself won't work unless you've included the TCMD.EXE installation directory in your PATH.)
     
  3. Charles Dye

    Charles Dye Super Moderator
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    It's very normal and expected for Take Command to start TCC. Are you saying that launching Take Command starts two instances of TCC? If so, Options / Configure Take Command / Tabs and check whether you have any startup tabs defined.
     
  4. vefatica

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    A question about an apparently new behavior that’s a minor irritation…

    On Mon, 16 May 2011 22:22:54 -0400, mathewsdw <> wrote:

    |Well, getting to the point, I am used to entering the command “Start TCmd” to start a new, separate, instance of Take Command, and that still works *except* that that single command now *also starts* a new, *totally separate* and standalone instance of TCC, which, while not a *major* problem I must admit, is quite annoying, and this seems to be a new (since I am not doing anything now I haven’t traditionally done in the past) behavior of Take Command. (Yes, it’s easy enough to shut it down, even without a mouse, but it’s still inconvenient.) And I truly don’t believe I am doing (or have done) anything differently than any previous version of Take Command. (TCC 12.10.66 Windows 7 [Version 6.1.7601]).

    When I try that (XPSP3) I see something flash (very quickly, can't even tell
    what it is) on the screen just before the TCMD window becomes visible. But
    nothing lingers.
     
  5. Steve Fabian

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    A question about an apparently new behavior that’s a minor irritation…

    From: mathewsdw
    | First off, I will start out by saying that I’m a command-line Geek. I
    | seldom, if ever, use the “Start Menu” to start an application...

    You have received several responses for the mechanics involved. I am a keyboard-geek, not a command line one. I prefer to start applications that do not require dynamically assigned command line parameters from the keyboard, using "shortcut hotkeys", i.e., desktop shortcuts to which I have assigned hotkeys. This allows me to start them regardless of where the focus is. I discovered that Windows happily accepts the combination of Alt-Ctrl-Shift with other keys, e.g., function keys and main keyboard keys. Such combinations are never passed to any application, so they cannot interfere with hotkeys of any application. (Alt-ctrl and alt-shift can be passed to applications, and had caused interference when I used them.) For example, the alt-ctl-shft-Z hotkey starts a stand-alone instance of the latest build of TCC, and better yet, if it is already running but is minimized or is in the background, it will restore it and give it focus. Similarly, alt-ctrl-shft-H starts the latest TCC HELP. Many others...
    --
    HTH, Steve
     
  6. mathewsdw

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    Rex, first, without going into the details, as I've mentioned previously I'm quite disabled in a number of ways and "strange" keyboard sequences are, simply put, beyond me. (I can handle "typing" pretty well, but not generally "alt ...", "Ctrl ...", much beyond the two "standard" ones - alt-tab and Ctrl C".)

    Second: Here is my complete "path" variable (I will note that I use "short" directory names in the actual path variable, I produced this list by executing the command(s) "For /T";" %D in (%path) Do (EchoS %@LFN[%D];) | List" and "copying" the result(s) from the "list" window and pasting it here):

    Z:\;C:\Windows\System32;C:\Windows;D:\SysInternals;D:\DOS;C:\Windows\System32\WindowsPowerShell\v1.0;C:\Program Files\Microsoft SQL Server\100\Tools\Binn;C:\Program Files\Microsoft SQL Server\100\DTS\Binn;C:\Windows\System32\wbem;C:\Program Files\QuickTime\QTSystem;D:\Program Files - Junctioned to C Drive\Regular Expression Component Library Vc8\Dll;

    Here is what is in my TCStart.btm file in my "DOS" directory:

    [Z:\]type D:\dos\TCStart.btm
    @If %_Pipe != 0 .OR. %_Transient != 0 Quit
    @CDD C:\
    @CDD D:\
    @CDD Z:\
    @Alias /R D:\Dos\Alias.txt
    @Function Link=`%@If["%@SymLink[%1]"=="",%@If["%@Junction[%1]"=="",^^<not a="" junction="" or="" symboli
    c Link^^>,%@Quote[%@Junction[%1]]],%@Quote[%@SymLink[%1]]]`

    And here is the proof that the TCStart.btm file in my "DOS" directory is the same file (hard-linked) as the TCStart.btm file in the "Take Command" directory:

    [Z:\]Echo %@Inode[D:\DOS\TCStart.btm]
    00050000:00012A85

    [Z:\]echo %@Inode["D:\Program Files\JPSoft\TCMD12.20Build66"\TCStart.btm]
    00050000:00012A85

    Here is the (single) alias that even begins with an "S":

    [Z:\]alias s*
    Sh*owCPPProgramHistory=D:\DOS\ShowCppProgramHistory.btm

    And, again, TCMD is in it's own directory, but is hard-linked to the actual copy that is invoked when I execute "Start TCmd" that is in my "DOS" directory. Proof that that is the case:

    [Z:\]echo %@Inode[D:\DOS\TCmd.exe]
    00260000:00013775

    [Z:\]echo %@Inode["D:\Program Files\JPSoft\TCMD12.20Build66"\TCmd.exe]
    00260000:00013775

    I don't know what else I can add to this....
    </not>
     
  7. mathewsdw

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    Yes!

    Charles, I don't really know what you are referring to here. However, I do know that I have not made any changes to the "Options/Tabs" dialogue, either now or in the past (previous versions of Take Command/TCC).

    All I can say is that "Tab Size" is 20, "Tab Icons" is checked, "Tab Location" is "top", "Close Button on Tab" has "Selected Tab" checked, "Startup Wait" is 0, "Foreground" and "Background" colors are "(default)",
    "Buffer Rows" is 5000, "Left Alt Key" is checked, and there is no data at all in any other field in the dialog.
     
  8. mathewsdw

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    Warning: The following is very personal information...

    Steve, I will make this very simple. Because of my handicaps I do not and will not do any keyboard shortcuts, period, end of sentence. It is not something I am capable of managing. (If you are curious which handicap I am referring to (out of many that I unfortunately have), I have medically diagnosed very, very bad memory!!!! (On a 5-level "memory" scale, I was close to the bottom of the bottom level. and the "top" level was "normal and above". I don't remember this, I saved the chart. This kind of thing actually causes me real problems in my life; if I did not have a computer and a cell phone (phone book, scheduler, memo's, and "messages" - I regularly send "reminder" messages (e-mail) to my cell phone from my computer since my cell-phone does not have an alphanumeric keypad) I would almost certainly have to be institutionalized because, simply put, I would not be able to take care of myself.) And I am single and live alone, so there is no one else who can take care of me. (And I will finally add that that is by design; when I was quite young and my eventual disabilities were starting to make themselves known (they run in my family), I made the explicit decision that I was not going to get married and put the burden of taking care of me on my wife/children, nor was I going to burden any biological children with these disabilities.) The only "saving grace" here (and this kind of surprises even me!) is that I have a lot of very close friends! (And I don't expect or even want you to reply with some expression of "sympathy"; thank you very much.)
     
  9. Charles Dye

    Charles Dye Super Moderator
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    What happens if you...
    Code:
    START TCMD /NT
     
  10. mathewsdw

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    Simply put, Charles, exactly the same behavior...

    But what does "/NT" mean???? I don't see it in the documentation...
     
  11. vefatica

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    On Tue, 17 May 2011 15:58:35 -0400, mathewsdw <> wrote:

    |---Quote (Originally by Charles Dye)---
    |What happens if you...
    |
    |Code:
    |---------
    |START TCMD /NT
    |---------
    |---End Quote---
    |Simply put, Charles, *exactly* the same behavior...
    |
    |But what does "/NT" mean???? I don't see it in the documentation...

    It's there, under StartupOptions (Take Command) ...

    "/NT Don't load the default startup tabs (usually only useful when combined with
    /C or /T)."
     
  12. Charles Dye

    Charles Dye Super Moderator
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    It causes Take Command to disregard any startup tabs defined in the .INI file. (Another elegant theory slain by ugly fact!)
     
  13. rconn

    rconn Administrator
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    Not clear to me why Alt-Tab is easier than Ctrl-Tab, but that's up to you.

    Your PATH doesn't seem to point anywhere where there would be a TCMD.EXE. Two things you should try:

    1) Try START with the full pathname to TCMD.EXE instead of just "TCMD" (which could be executing a lot of things other than TCMD.EXE).

    2) Try "WHICH TCMD" to see what Windows thinks is the TCMD executable.
     
  14. mathewsdw

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    Rex, as to your first point, "Alt-Tab is easier than Ctrl-Tab, it is simply a matter that my memory is so bad (and I do so many things strictly by habit) that "remembering" that is almost beyond my capabilities.

    As to "1)" , that works!!!! (And that means that I can easily write an alias to get around the problem! And I will note that my memory problems are somewhat specific to the "type" of thing I'm trying to remember, I can remember textual data without a whole lot of trouble, but keystroke combinations are generally beyond me.)

    As to "2)", the mystery actually deepens. The result of "[Z:\]which tcmd.exe" is "tcmd.exe is an external : D:\DOS\tcmd.exe". And I will finally note that, regarding your second point in this posting, as I tried to point out in a previous posting in this thread bringing this up last night, that the copy of "TCmd.exe" in my "D:\DOS" directory is actually (and easily provably) hard-linked to the one in my Take Command "installation" directory: "D:\Program Files\JPSoft\TCMD12.20Build66\tcmd.exe".
     
  15. Charles Dye

    Charles Dye Super Moderator
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    I have to wonder whether there's another .INI file in that D:\DOS directory.
     
  16. mathewsdw

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    Re: A question about an apparently new behavior that’s a minor irritation… (News flash!!! Problem solved!!!!)

    Rex, when I went to write said alias, the first command I entered was: "alias t*", and the result was: "TC*MD=D:\PROGRA~3\JPSoft\TCMD12\tcmd.exe TCStart.btm" (wrong directory). I really don't know why I wrote this alias in the first place since my habit really was to enter "Start TCmd" when I wanted a new instance of "Take Command", nor do I understand why I pointed to the copy in the Take Command "installation" directory, and nor do I understand why two windows ("Take Command" and a completely separate "TCC" window) opened, but it really doesn't matter, does it???? (Bottom line: I'm keeping the alias, but I'll revise it to just point to the copy of "TCmd.exe" in my "D:\DOS" directory since that is always guaranteed to be the latest, greatest, copy of Take Command.)
     
  17. rconn

    rconn Administrator
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    Then I suspect that you've got an extra TCMD.INI and / or an extra TCSTART, and you're not really executing the one you think you are.
     

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