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Complaint about the new forum

Discussion in 'Support' started by logic, Jun 4, 2008.

  1. logic

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    I must say I *hate* the following aspects of the new forum:

    1) It is impossible for me to have e-mail delivered to a different address
    than that from which I send it.

    2) My quoting is taken over and replaced by the forum with stupid additional
    lines reading "---Quote---" and "---End Quote---". Why??

    3) My single e-mail apparently resulted in two posts.

    4) A tag with a number that is meaningless to me is inserted into the
    subject line of every post. This seems in some cases to cause Outlook's
    admittedly deficient conversation threading to fail, splitting conversations
    into multiple groups.

    5) The forum software completely ignores my full name in the "From" field
    and replaces it with my forum username.

    While there may have been problems with SparkList.com, this new system
    doesn't feel like an improvement to me.

    Jonathan Gilbert_
    \\\ / / / \ |_) |_/
    \\\/ \/ \__/ | \ | \
    Software Systems
     
  2. logic

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    From: logic
    Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 2:47 PM
    Subject: Complaint about the new forum

    [snip]

    I also want to mention that I think moving all of the wiki content to a
    forum format is a *bad* idea. A wiki retains all of the prior history but
    permits the information to be viewed in a formatted, structured way. It
    allows many people's changes to be combined into a single page. It can
    present a much cleaner and professional view of information. I don't know
    what the problems are with the wiki, but I personally wouldn't ever consider
    making a change like that for this kind of information ("tips and tricks").

    Jonathan Gilbert_
    \\\ / / / \ |_) |_/
    \\\/ \/ \__/ | \ | \
    Software Systems
     
  3. rconn

    rconn Administrator
    Staff Member

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    logic wrote:

    Why would you want to do that? You can't do that with the old forum
    either, and I've never seen a forum that *did* support that.


    That is dependent on your email format. (If you choose html, you don't
    see it.)


    I've not seen that -- unless you've subscribed both to the threads and
    to the forum?


    That tag is necessary to allow the threading in the web forum. I'm
    using Thunderbird and it seems to thread everything nicely there.


    WAD -- do you really want your full name (and potentially email address)
    to be sent to everybody?


    There are a LOT more problems with SparkList than are generally known;
    this new system is a vast improvement from the administrative end.

    Rex Conn
    JP Software
     
  4. rconn

    rconn Administrator
    Staff Member

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    logic wrote:


    The problems with the Wiki are (1) nobody's using it, because (2) it's
    too complicated, and (3) unless you browse it constantly you'll never
    know if there's anything new and/or interesting there, and (4) it's a
    spam honey pot. (Almost all of the new entries are spam; Charles has to
    spend way too much time constantly removing them.)

    Rex Conn
    JP Software
     
  5. logic

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    From: rconn
    Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 4:07 PM
    Subject: RE: [Support-t-130] Complaint about the new forum

    I was under the impression that I've been doing that for years with the old
    forum. Perhaps I am confused there.


    But then I lose the ability to thread replies into the quoted response as I
    am doing right now, do I not?


    It was apparently a one-off thing for me. I've made several posts since and
    they only showed up once. However, I have seen duplicate posts from other
    members...


    Well, I'm not using Thunderbird. Are you suggesting I should reorganize my
    entire mail reading habits to accommodate the shortcomings of the new forum
    system? I don't understand why the outbound e-mails to me must have that tag
    in the subject line. Can't the forum system use the "References" field for
    threading like Thunderbird does (and like Outlook manifestly does not)?

    The forum system is in PHP, so it is obviously amenable to site-specific
    changes.


    If I put it as the source in what I am sending out, doesn't that imply that
    I'm okay with other people seeing it? In any event, I'm not particularly
    worried about the e-mail address. I send "Jonathan Gilbert", and I sign my
    e-mails with "Jonathan Gilbert", and everyone else sees posts from "logic".
    Unless I can put spaces into a forum username, there is no way for me to be
    "Jonathan Gilbert".


    I can believe that. By far the single most positive advantage that I
    personally would find, as a programmer, is the ability to make changes to
    the list code.

    Jonathan Gilbert_
    \\\ / / / \ |_) |_/
    \\\/ \/ \__/ | \ | \
    Software Systems
     
  6. logic

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    From: rconn
    Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 4:23 PM
    Subject: RE: [Support-t-130] Complaint about the new forum

    The complexity issues, at least from my personal experience setting up a
    Wiki within my own company, are mostly a matter of education. I don't just
    mean teaching people how to use the Wiki, but also teaching people that they
    don't personally have to get it perfect and polished. If they can't figure
    out the Wiki codes, that's *okay*; they can put the data in unformatted and
    someone else who has the time and interest can easily reformat it later.
    Better to have the data in some form than to not have it at all.

    The MediaWiki software can be made to deliver RSS feeds. If that is not a
    nice, usable format for casual readers, the code is readily extensible and
    could without a lot of effort be made to display a user-friend version of
    the "Recent Changes" special page.

    As for dealing with spam, an invitational system for signing up for accounts
    should completely eliminate the problem. The only problem with this
    suggestion is that as far as I know, nobody has at this point added that
    functionality to MediaWiki. However, I wouldn't be averse to doing it.
    Basically, if the only way to get an account is to be invited by a friend,
    then the only way spam will end up on the wiki is if someone's account is
    compromised. If that *does* happen, even if the spammer is smart and figures
    out the invitation system (which would require an attack specially targeting
    your wiki, since no others would have this particular invitational system),
    you can simply prune the entire subtree of users by invitation and thereby
    eliminate all accounts set up for spamming in one go.

    I strongly feel that the advantages of the wiki presentation outweigh the
    disadvantages, and the issues you have mentioned can be worked around
    without requiring a full-time job training people and cleaning up after
    miscreants.

    Jonathan Gilbert_
    \\\ / / / \ |_) |_/
    \\\/ \/ \__/ | \ | \
    Software Systems
     
  7. rconn

    rconn Administrator
    Staff Member

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    logic wrote:


    No; I'm doing it with html.


    No, I'm saying that at least OE and Thunderbird have no problems with
    it. I'm not using Outlook, so I can't make any comments about that.

    Anybody else using Outlook and experiencing threading problems?

    Rex Conn
    JP Software
     
  8. David Marcus

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    Unless I can put spaces into a forum username,

    It appears you can.
     

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