FTP site; IFTP access

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#1
ftp://jpsoft.com still has only build B50 of V11 as of 13:19 EDT. Updating
to B51 using "option/u" (from the http site) was successful, but it created
a TCMD 11 shortcut in "Start Menu\Programs" despite options being set not
to. It updated an entry in the "Add or Remove Programs" list from a much
earlier build to B51, but a second entry for V11 B50 remained.

When attempting to compare a local file to the one on the ftp site,
using @compare, the process takes much longer than it takes to download the
file and compare it to the local one.
Attempting to interrupt almost any IFTP operation is near impossible. If
successful, it takes extremely long, almost as if the operation would have
to be completed before interruption becomes effective.
--
Steve
 

rconn

Administrator
Staff member
May 14, 2008
10,103
85
#2
> ftp://jpsoft.com still has only build B50 of V11 as of 13:19 EDT.
I just looked and it has build 51 -- you're probably seeing a cached copy.

(And JP Software does *not* support any installations from the FTP site --
in fact, because of continuing problems with users mangling their
installations with manual installs, I will be removing the FTP files soon.
All downloads & installations will be done through the web site.)

Rex Conn
JP Software
 

Charles Dye

Super Moderator
Staff member
May 20, 2008
3,385
39
Albuquerque, NM
prospero.unm.edu
#3
... in fact, because of continuing problems with users mangling their installations with manual installs, I will be removing the FTP files soon. All downloads & installations will be done through the web site.)
That's a shame. I for one like to download the installers from the FTP site -- for normal, regular, garden-variety by-the-wizard installs.
 

rconn

Administrator
Staff member
May 14, 2008
10,103
85
#4
> I do too. Why is it a problem if we download the same installer by ftp
> instead of http?
Three problems:

1) We've got 200,000 people using the http site and 10 using the ftp site --
but it takes longer to get the new versions set up on the ftp site.

2) For new installs it doesn't make a lot of difference, but updates are
designed to use the updater -- and I have a constant stream of complaints
from the 10 people using the ftp site about update problems. Using the
updater also shows you the bug fixes or new features in each version.

3) The ftp downloads are much more susceptible to being cached somewhere
else, resulting in those 10 people getting the wrong version (and
complaining about it!).

Rex Conn
JP Software
 
#5
| ---Quote---
|| I do too. Why is it a problem if we download the same installer by
|| ftp instead of http?
| ---End Quote---
| Three problems:
|
| 1) We've got 200,000 people using the http site and 10 using the ftp
| site -- but it takes longer to get the new versions set up on the
| ftp site.

I'd have thought you'd have a TCC batch file to upload them automatically,
in fact it could even be the same batch file which uploads them to the http
site.

| 2) For new installs it doesn't make a lot of difference, but updates
| are designed to use the updater -- and I have a constant stream of
| complaints from the 10 people using the ftp site about update
| problems. Using the updater also shows you the bug fixes or new
| features in each version.

"Installs": 3rd person singular of verb "to install", not a noun.

I've never seen the list of bug fixes, or new features, when using the
updater. It offers to display the README file, but that's typically for a
new VERSION, listing new features, not a new BUILD. I don't remember a case
when a bugfix was reported in any manner other than in one of the subfora of
this forum.

| 3) The ftp downloads are much more susceptible to being cached
| somewhere else, resulting in those 10 people getting the wrong
| version (and complaining about it!).

If that is true for downloading directly from ftp://jpsoft.com, the
whole ftp implementation in TCC is useless, as you never know whether you
are getting an old version or the latest version of any file. For example, I
use Comcast as my ISP, and I doubt it would be caching copies of
ftp://jpsoft.com files. If the caching is in my own WinXP machine, the IFTP
package ought to be able to get past it. If the caching is on the
ftp://jpsoft.com server, I don't think it is a true implementation of the
File Transfer Protocol. OTOH, I had (in the 1980-s) worked with a Unix file
system, which did this kind of caching - you uploaded a new file via the
network, but it kept downloading the cached old version, until other uses
overwrote the cache - a glaring mistake in the design. It caused major
project delays.

Another point is that with ftp you can download the updates for all
products (tcmd, tcmdx64, tccle, tcmdle) with one command, and selectively
install those you want when it is convenient, even across a network. In a
situation where there is a system administrator controlling multiple
machines, downloading can be to a singe system, not to each authorized one
individually. You don't need to go testing each for updates when you want to
use them. Update installation can also be more automated, since the updater
is a GUI program, the installer can be run in command mode. Installing a new
build while retaining the previous build is a bit more difficult, but what
is impossible without ftp is the ability to install an older build then the
one registered. It's something a few of us do, very occasionally. Lastly,
the updater leaves behind lots of files.
--
Steve
 
Jan 24, 2009
36
0
#6
The update does not work for me. Must be a job firewall issue

Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone

----- Reply message -----
From: "rconn" <>
Date: Fri, Jul 2, 2010 10:11 am
Subject: [Support-t-2134] Re: FTP site; IFTP access
To: <rob@drrob1.com>

---Quote---

> I do too. Why is it a problem if we download the same installer by ftp
> instead of http?
---End Quote---
Three problems:

1) We've got 200,000 people using the http site and 10 using the ftp site --
but it takes longer to get the new versions set up on the ftp site.

2) For new installs it doesn't make a lot of difference, but updates are
designed to use the updater -- and I have a constant stream of complaints
from the 10 people using the ftp site about update problems. Using the
updater also shows you the bug fixes or new features in each version.

3) The ftp downloads are much more susceptible to being cached somewhere
else, resulting in those 10 people getting the wrong version (and
complaining about it!).

Rex Conn
JP Software
 
#8
On Fri, 02 Jul 2010 11:14:14 -0400, Steve Fábián
<> wrote:

|"Installs": 3rd person singular of verb "to install", not a noun.

Tell that to many an IT pro. If it's used as a noun it is a noun.

Even ... (see 2 below)

install (plural installs)

1. (informal) Installation. (Usage originated as a truncated form
of the word installation.)
2. (computing) (jargon): A computer software utility that is run to
install a software application. Also used as an adjective.

According to Merriam-Webster, "set up" as a verb predates "setup" as a
noun by about 600 years; "build" as a verb predates "build" as a noun
(not even our sense) by roughly 400 years. Most of the big
dictionaries (self-proclaimed authorities) including M-W online do not
list the "build", in our sense, as a noun. It takes time.

Try Googling "the install fails" ... about 19,000,000 hits.
 
#9
On Fri, 02 Jul 2010 11:14:14 -0400, Steve Fábián
<> wrote:

|I've never seen the list of bug fixes, or new features, when using the
|updater.

Brief release notes (what was fixed) appear right in the updater
window.
 
D

drrob1

Guest
#10
Rexx, what do you think the webserver is doing that triggers my job to
block it. I cannot use the updater or ordinary http download.



On 07/02/2010 10:11 AM, rconn wrote:

> ---Quote---
>> I do too. Why is it a problem if we download the same installer by ftp
>> instead of http?
> ---End Quote---
> Three problems:
>
> 1) We've got 200,000 people using the http site and 10 using the ftp site --
> but it takes longer to get the new versions set up on the ftp site.
>
> 2) For new installs it doesn't make a lot of difference, but updates are
> designed to use the updater -- and I have a constant stream of complaints
> from the 10 people using the ftp site about update problems. Using the
> updater also shows you the bug fixes or new features in each version.
>
> 3) The ftp downloads are much more susceptible to being cached somewhere
> else, resulting in those 10 people getting the wrong version (and
> complaining about it!).
>
> Rex Conn
> JP Software
>
>
>
>
>
 

rconn

Administrator
Staff member
May 14, 2008
10,103
85
#11
> I'd have thought you'd have a TCC batch file to upload them
> automatically, in fact it could even be the same batch file
> which uploads them to the http site.
Can't be done. Because of security changes for the ftp server (the ISP, not
me), I have to upload to one place (my home directory), then log into the
server as root and move them over to the appropriate (three different)
directories.


> "Installs": 3rd person singular of verb "to install", not a noun.
Pedantic, but not particularly correct.


> I've never seen the list of bug fixes, or new features, when using the
> updater.
Then apparently you've either never run the updater, or never read the lower
window pane, where all the new features & bug fixes are listed.


> If that is true for downloading directly from ftp://jpsoft.com, the
> whole ftp implementation in TCC is useless, as you never know whether
> you are getting an old version or the latest version of any file.
It has nothing to do with TCC or ftp://jpsoft.com. The files are apparently
being cached elsewhere on the net (probably by your ISP, given that you seem
to download them constantly). It's the same three or four people who
continually complain that the files on the ftp server are the old version.


> Lastly, the updater leaves behind lots of files.
Not true; the updater creates no files at all. The Windows Installer (the
.exe) is the one that leaves files (which it needs for the "repair" option).

Rex Conn
JP Software