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No better than cmd.exe (scrolling, long lines, resize, selection)

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by landen, Feb 7, 2012.

  1. landen

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    When I downloaded TCC/LE, I was hoping it would solve my issues with cmd.exe such as:

    1. Reflowing long lines when shell is resized.
    2. Allowing program output to continue when I select text (scrolling stops, but output continues).
    3. Allowing program output to not force scrolled window back to bottom.
    4. Allow wrapped line output to be easy to select.

    So far TCC/LE is 0 out of 4.

    I suspect (and hope), that as a newbie I don't know the tricks to solve one or more of my issues, so I look forward to updates/corrections to my complaints.
     
  2. JohnQSmith

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    Rating a piece of software based upon your expectations of what you "think" it should do as compared to rating it based upon what it was "designed" to do gives your comment ZERO credence here.
     
  3. Charles Dye

    Charles Dye Super Moderator
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    Those are all criticisms -- perfectly valid criticisms -- of the Windows console environment. Any program that runs in the console is going to behave the same way.

    The full version of Take Command overlays a GUI on top of the console, so selection at least behaves a little differently. But underneath, there is still a console window, with the same old limitations; scrolling and line wrapping are still the same.
     
  4. rconn

    rconn Administrator
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    You'll need to forward your complaints to Microsoft, as those are all done by the Windows console manager (conhost). A command line app (whether TCC/LE or CMD) has no control over any of those.

    Take Command will solve #4, and part of #1 (old lines cannot be redone, but new lines will use the new screen width). The probem with wrapping is that the Windows console does not add any EOL marker to the output, so when you resize it's impossible to determine when a line wrapped and when it ended at the right margin. (It's even worse when you're using direct screen I/O instead of tty output.)
     
  5. landen

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    Thanks for the updates, I thought TCC was built from the ground up and not a layer on conhost or any other vintage MS console code.
    I look forward to using the great enhancements TCC offers.
     
  6. rconn

    rconn Administrator
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    Without access to the Microsoft console manager and Windows kernel source code (and they're not offering it!) that would be a vast undertaking, with the minor disadvantage that once we were done it probably wouldn't be compatible with any existing command line applications.

    Take Command goes a long way (probably about as far as possible without rewriting substantial parts of Windows) to resolving the UI problems with the Windows console, but TCC/LE (like every other command line app that isn't run in a Take Command tab window) is at the mercy of the console window. TCC/LE's purpose is to replace CMD to provide a better scripting language and more powerful internal commands. Take Command does much more of that, and also provides a much better UI.

    Saying TCC/LE isn't an improvement over CMD is a bit like saying a Ferrari isn't any better than a Yugo, because the Ferrari can't fly. But it sure does drive better! :)
     
  7. landen

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    I think the simple console project on CodeProject
    http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/9621/ShellControl-A-console-emulation-control

    emulates a shell in a text window by redirecting the output/input between cmd.exe and programs it executes.
    I realize this is a far cry from a fully functional shell, but I think it could be used to solve my four issues.

    PS - I apologize for my harsh subject line, I believe TCC is great tool and does as you say and has a powerful scripting language and is very helpful to your clients.
     
  8. rconn

    rconn Administrator
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    That project won't solve any of your 4 issues -- it's intended as a GUI app that can write to something that looks like a command line. Unless you have the source code for your command interpreter, you can't embed it, so you cannot do anything with the command input & output.
     

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