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option /u question

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Steve Fabian

May
3,515
5
TCC 13.04.63 Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
The command
option /u
returned a display offering the same build with the V13 list of "what's new", yet the same command in earlier versions (11.00.52 and 12.11.76) as well as the latest public beta (14.00.24) returned the "up to date" message.

IMHO the command in the V11 and V12 versions should offer V13 (the latest released version), with the "what's new" lists appropriate for the upgrade (i.e., V11 response should include both the V12 and V13 "what's new" lists), while in V13 (and V14) should report "up to date". Is there possibly a reversed test in the reporting logic in V11 through V13? BTW, I just tested that V11 is the earliest version for the command option...
 
Steve Fabian said:
IMHO the command in the V11 and V12 versions should offer V13 (the latest released version), with the "what's new" lists appropriate for the upgrade (i.e., V11 response should include both the V12 and V13 "what's new" lists), while in V13 (and V14) should report "up to date". Is there possibly a reversed test in the reporting logic in V11 through V13? BTW, I just tested that V11 is the earliest version for the command option...
Click to expand...

Definitely not -- users *really* do not like downloading updates and then discovering that they have to pay for them!

And it is not possible for the updater to read the update files for other major versions. (Even if it knew they existed -- which it does not, and cannot.)
 
rconn said:
Definitely not -- users *really* do not like downloading updates and then discovering that they have to pay for them!
Click to expand...
Freeware (e.g., Mozilla) allows you to check for updates WITHOUT updating. I appreciate customers not wanting to download for-pay upgrades without a priori knowledge. Maybe the /u option should be enhanced - to show both free and for-pay upgrades. Consdiering your policy that those who purchase a version shortly before the next version is released get a free upgrade, your "sales department" (that's just another of your hats, isn't it?) could provide the website code; the command checking for the update would need to transmit customer identification to your website. I realize this may be a major website upgrade (minor effort in TCMD/TCC).

rconn said:
And it is not possible for the updater to read the update files for other major versions. (Even if it knew they existed -- which it does not, and cannot.)
Click to expand...
That's a limitation of the updater you currently use. A more sophisticated one, in conjunction with enhanced website database, could provide the information.
 
Steve Fabian said:
Freeware (e.g., Mozilla) allows you to check for updates WITHOUT updating. I appreciate customers not wanting to download for-pay upgrades without a priori knowledge. Maybe the /u option should be enhanced - to show both free and for-pay upgrades.
Click to expand...

As I said, that cannot be done with the current updater. If you can get a few hundred people to support your request for a new updater, I'll take a look at it for a future version.
 
rconn said:
As I said, that cannot be done with the current updater. If you can get a few hundred people to support your request for a new updater, I'll take a look at it for a future version.
Click to expand...
I'll be number one. Please get an installer that doesn't leave hanging around (useless) remnants of install sources for minor versions that have been updated. In this case, I specifically checked "***REMOVE*** only the 14.00.24.version". Yet:

Code: 
c:\users\vefatica\appdata\roaming\jp software> d
2012-06-29  21:26        <DIR>    .
2012-06-29  21:26        <DIR>    ..
2012-03-21  13:51        <DIR>    Take Command 13.0
2012-03-23  00:11        <DIR>    Take Command 13.04
2012-05-02  23:31        <DIR>    Take Command 13.04 13.04.63
2012-05-16  23:03        <DIR>    Take Command 14.0
2012-06-24  12:31        <DIR>    Take Command 14.0 14.00.24
2012-06-29  21:26        <DIR>    Take Command 14.0 14.00.25
 
vefatica said:
I'll be number one. Please get an installer that doesn't leave hanging around (useless) remnants of install sources for minor versions that have been updated. In this case, I specifically checked "***REMOVE*** only the 14.00.24.version".
Click to expand...

As I've said several times before, this is easily done in Windows Installer. All I have to do is what 99.999% of the other apps+installers out there do, and overwrite previous versions. But thus far that suggestion generates *lots* of complaints from users who (for often mysterious reasons) want to retain all their old versions.

Though it'd certainly be easier for me - if you can convince everybody else to support your viewpoint, I'll be happy to make the change in the installer.
 
rconn said:
As I've said several times before, this is easily done in Windows Installer. All I have to do is what 99.999% of the other apps+installers out there do, and overwrite previous versions. But thus far that suggestion generates *lots* of complaints from users who (for often mysterious reasons) want to retain all their old versions.

Though it'd certainly be easier for me - if you can convince everybody else to support your viewpoint, I'll be happy to make the change in the installer.
Click to expand...
I'm one of those who keeps previous major versions. Please tell me if I have this right. Say I'm updating from 14.00.25 to 14.00.26 ... you cannot tell it to uninstall 14.00.25 without it also uninstalling version 13? I can tell the Windows Installer to uninstall v14 and it will do so without touching v13. But, to be honest, that wouldn't solve the problem. Even uninstalling doesn't remove any of the install source trees. Can't you use a "custom action" to simply delete the older minor version install source tree when updating to a newer minor version? Apparently, of these (below, in AppData\Roaming\JP...), the only one known to the Windows Installer is the most recent one.

Code: 
2012-06-24  12:31        <DIR>    Take Command 14.0 14.00.24
2012-06-29  21:26        <DIR>    Take Command 14.0 14.00.25
2012-07-03  21:08        <DIR>    Take Command 14.0 14.00.26
 
vefatica said:
I'm one of those who keeps previous major versions. Please tell me if I have this right. Say I'm updating from 14.00.25 to 14.00.26 ... you cannot tell it to uninstall 14.00.25 without it also uninstalling version 13?
Click to expand...

No, I can tell it to keep v13, but it will have to uninstall all of the prior v14 builds.

Can't you use a "custom action" to simply delete the older minor version install source tree when updating to a newer minor version?
Click to expand...

No, unless I could automagically tell exactly which of the older minor versions you want to keep and which ones you don't. Or, if you're installing 14.00.26, I can delete every previous build of that version; i.e., 14.00.1 to 14.00.25. You cannot pick and choose.
 
rconn said:
No, I can tell it to keep v13, but it will have to uninstall all of the prior v14 builds.



No, unless I could automagically tell exactly which of the older minor versions you want to keep and which ones you don't. Or, if you're installing 14.00.26, I can delete every previous build of that version; i.e., 14.00.1 to 14.00.25. You cannot pick and choose.
Click to expand...
Are there folks who want to keep (selectively or not) the install sources for minor versions that have been updated? I wouldn't have guessed. And others (the majority I suppose) just keep accumulating these things. Hmmm! There ought to be a better way.

Do you design the dialig boxes? How about a third radio button ... "Delete install source for <minor version being updated>"
 
I just discovered that those old MSI files are useless. I uninstalled 14.00.26. All the install source trees (24, 25, 26) remained. I executed the 14.00.25 TCMD.MSI. It looked like it was going to be installed until I got a message box: Installer Information: Source file not found: C:\Users\...\updater.exe. Had I not uninstalled 14.00.26 I suppose I'd still have that missing file, but I doubt the installer wold have let me regress from 14.00.26 to 14.00.25 (would it?; I'll try it in a minute). So what good are those old files?
 
vefatica said:
I just discovered that those old MSI files are useless. I uninstalled 14.00.26. All the install source trees (24, 25, 26) remained. I executed the 14.00.25 TCMD.MSI. It looked like it was going to be installed until I got a message box: Installer Information: Source file not found: C:\Users\...\updater.exe. Had I not uninstalled 14.00.26 I suppose I'd still have that missing file, but I doubt the installer wold have let me regress from 14.00.26 to 14.00.25 (would it?; I'll try it in a minute). So what good are those old files?
Click to expand...
So this time I re-installed 14.00.26 (using the web TCMD.EXE) and there was still no C:\Users\...\updater.exe. Given my previous remarks, it seems there's no way to use any of those old TCMD.MSI files! With all those folks wanting to save them I'd have thought someone would have tried using one of them. If they are any good, what good are they?
 
rconn said:
The TCMD.MSI files don't have anything to do with updater.exe.
Click to expand...
I simply told you what I did and what the result was (repeated below). If those old MSI files are of any value at all, please tell me how I, or anyone, might use them.
Code: 
I uninstalled 14.00.26. All the install source trees (24, 25, 26) remained. I executed the
14.00.25 TCMD.MSI. It looked like it was going to be installed until I got a message box:
Installer Information: Source file not found: C:\Users\...\updater.exe.
 
vefatica said:
I simply told you what I did and what the result was (repeated below). If those old MSI files are of any value at all, please tell me how I, or anyone, might use them.
Click to expand...

As I've said before, they're used by the Windows Installer for the "Repair" option.

For your other questions, suggestions, and complaints, please contact Microsoft. It's their program, and (although you resolutely refuse to believe this) I do not have their source code or the ability (or desire) to change their apps.
 
rconn said:
As I've said before, they're used by the Windows Installer for the "Repair" option.
Click to expand...
Is it possible to have more than one minor version installed, say 14.00.25 and 14.00.26?
If so, how does one do that ("repair" of old minor versions makes some sense in this scenario)?
If not, and I currently have 14.00.26 installed (or have ever had it installed), please give me a set of steps, a scenario, that will put this file (below) to any use whatsoever.
Code: 
C:\Users\vefatica\AppData\Roaming\JP Software\Take Command 14.0 14.00.25\install\3A18A34\tcmd.msi

You said you *could* delete all the previous minor version install source trees. If they have no practical value it would seem that you should do that.
 
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