TCMD tab switch keys

May 20, 2008
450
2
#1
Though it has probably been this way for a while, I just noticed this with the TCMD v12 tabs. With several tabs open, I usually use the mouse to click the tab, though every once in a while I use the Alt+arrow keys to switch tabs. So, I just noticed this. Alt+Left switches to the tab to the right and Alt+Right switches to the tab to the left. It doesn't matter if I use the left or right Alt key. This seems backwards. Alt+Left should switch left and Alt+Right should switch right. Is this supposed to be this way? Can it be reversed?

Thanks.
 
#2
.) Right click the empty area next to Options / Windows / Help
.) Choose Customize
.) Choose Keyboard
.) Select the Tabs Category
.) Modify "Next Tab" and "Previous Tab"

On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 10:23, TimButterfield <> wrote:


> Though it has probably been this way for a while, I just noticed this with
> the TCMD v12 tabs. With several tabs open, I usually use the mouse to click
> the tab, though every once in a while I use the Alt+arrow keys to switch
> tabs. So, I just noticed this. Alt+Left switches to the tab to the right
> and Alt+Right switches to the tab to the left. It doesn't matter if I use
> the left or right Alt key. This seems backwards. Alt+Left should switch
> left and Alt+Right should switch right. Is this supposed to be this way?
> Can it be reversed?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
>
>


--
Jim Cook
2010 Sundays: 4/4, 6/6, 8/8, 10/10, 12/12 and 5/9, 9/5, 7/11, 11/7.
Next year they're Monday.
 

Charles Dye

Super Moderator
Staff member
May 20, 2008
3,602
46
Albuquerque, NM
prospero.unm.edu
#3
Though it has probably been this way for a while, I just noticed this with the TCMD v12 tabs. With several tabs open, I usually use the mouse to click the tab, though every once in a while I use the Alt+arrow keys to switch tabs. So, I just noticed this. Alt+Left switches to the tab to the right and Alt+Right switches to the tab to the left. It doesn't matter if I use the left or right Alt key. This seems backwards. Alt+Left should switch left and Alt+Right should switch right. Is this supposed to be this way? Can it be reversed?
It's not really left and right; Take Command maintains an MRU list. Alt-Left and Alt-Right move forward and backwards through the list. (Or is it the other way round?) Control-Tab displays the list while moving through it.

Yes, I too would like to see the hotkeys move through tabs by direction rather than via the MRU list. Don't know how likely that is, though.
 
May 20, 2008
450
2
#4
On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 12:35 PM, Charles Dye <> wrote:

> It's not really left and right; Take Command maintains an MRU list. *Alt-Left and Alt-Right move forward and backwards through the list. *(Or is it the other way round?) *Control-Tab displays the list while moving through it.
>
> Yes, I too would like to see the hotkeys move through tabs by direction rather than via the MRU list. *Don't know how likely that is, though.
Thanks, Charles.

When I was trying to find info in help about tabs, I did not see this
listed. I do see the tab keys listed under keyboard shortcut, but
didn't see the config dialog you mentioned.

That was the issue, selection by MRU instead of by direction. My
next/previous keys were set correctly. But, my MRU list was shuffled
by mouse clicks on the tabs. Trying to keep track of which one I
clicked last is too much trouble. Maybe that's why I usually selected
via mouse click instead of Alt+Arrow.

Rex,
Suggestions for next version:
1) Allow selecting tabs by direction instead of MRU
2) Add info to the 'Tab Windows' help page about next/prev/list tab
selection keys and related config dialogs
 

rconn

Administrator
Staff member
May 14, 2008
10,551
97
#5
Suggestions for next version:
1) Allow selecting tabs by direction instead of MRU
2) Add info to the 'Tab Windows' help page about next/prev/list tab
selection keys and related config dialogs
This is normal Windows MDI behavior, so it's not changeable without throwing out all of the existing MDI (library) code and writing 20,000+ lines of new code to replace it. (Windows has no concept of left & right tabs.)

This would also make TCMD's behavior non-standard (though arguably more "correct"). It also would make it very difficult to support tab reordering.
 
#7
I believe Chrome tabs have a left-to-right awareness. Perhaps there's
another API that hasn't been obvious.

On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 17:23, rconn <> wrote:


> ---Quote (Originally by TimButterfield)---
> Suggestions for next version:
> 1) Allow selecting tabs by direction instead of MRU
> 2) Add info to the 'Tab Windows' help page about next/prev/list tab
> selection keys and related config dialogs
> ---End Quote---
>
> This is normal Windows MDI behavior, so it's not changeable without
> throwing out all of the existing MDI (library) code and writing 20,000+
> lines of new code to replace it. (Windows has no concept of left & right
> tabs.)
>
> This would also make TCMD's behavior non-standard (though arguably more
> "correct"). It also would make it very difficult to support tab reordering.
>
>
>
>
>


--
Jim Cook
2010 Sundays: 4/4, 6/6, 8/8, 10/10, 12/12 and 5/9, 9/5, 7/11, 11/7.
Next year they're Monday.
 
#9
I just tested IE on Vista, and it Ctrl-Tabs left-to-right, regardless of the
tab click order, also.

On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 18:50, rconn <> wrote:


> ---Quote (Originally by Jim Cook)---
> I believe Chrome tabs have a left-to-right awareness. Perhaps there's
> another API that hasn't been obvious.
> ---End Quote---
>
> Chrome is the least-Windows-compatible app out there -- they don't even use
> the Windows APIs to write text.
>
>
>
>
>


--
Jim Cook
2010 Sundays: 4/4, 6/6, 8/8, 10/10, 12/12 and 5/9, 9/5, 7/11, 11/7.
Next year they're Monday.
 
May 20, 2008
450
2
#10
On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 7:23 PM, rconn <> wrote:

> This is normal Windows MDI behavior, so it's not changeable without throwing out all of the existing MDI (library) code and writing 20,000+ lines of new code to replace it. *(Windows has no concept of left & right tabs.)
Isn't there a tab index it can go by, incremented as tabs are created,
kind of like the shell count discussed long ago? It seems an OnKey
should be able to trap the Alt+Arrow and select the next higher/lower
tab index/shell count/pid. If those keys weren't configured in the
dialog, would they just be ignored instead of processed? If they can
be configured via that dialog, why can't they be unconfigured and
handled separately? I wouldn't mind navigating forward/backward by
the order the tab/shell was created. Reordering tabs would then be my
issue and not handled by this mechanism.
 
May 20, 2008
450
2
#12
On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 7:33 PM, rconn <> wrote:

> ---Quote (Originally by TimButterfield)---
> 2) Add info to the 'Tab Windows' help page about next/prev/list tab
> selection keys and related config dialogs
> ---End Quote---
>
> That customization dialog (which is for all keyboard accelerators) is already documented in the help on the Menus page.
That may be. But, I was looking for information on tabs and tab
navigation, not on menu items. The 'Tab Windows' page should
reference Keyboard Shortcuts (or help pages) that are relevant.
Similarly, if configurable, the Keyboard Shortcuts page should
reference the configuration dialog(s) that are relevant. Though this
is one of the Take Command\Configuration Options, it doesn't appear in
that help contents hierarchy. There doesn't appear to be any help
page on that particular dialog itself, just that reference in the
Menus help text.
 
May 20, 2008
450
2
#13
On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 2:20 PM, rconn <> wrote:

>
> Isn't there a tab index it can go by, incremented as tabs are created,
> kind of like the shell count discussed long ago?/QUOTE]
>
> No, there isn't. *(This is Microsoft's code.)
Okay. Could you add some mechanisms in a future version to determine
and activate tabs? That would let me re-sort/control the tabs MRU
list. Here are some possibilities:

_TCTABID
Internal TCMD index of a tab

TABLIST
Returns a list of pid, tab id, and title similar to tasklist, but just for tabs

ACTIVATE /TAB=# (activate tab by tab id)
ACTIVATE /TAB "title"
ACTIVATE /PID=# (activate tab or window by PID, handy if title is changing)

TABSORT
Re-sort the MRU list in order tabs were created (_tctabid). If screen
draw were temporarily turned off during the sort, it wouldn't even
blink, just reset the MRU list. I could then include this in my
prompt and always have Alt-Arrow work in the right direction.
 

rconn

Administrator
Staff member
May 14, 2008
10,551
97
#14
That may be. But, I was looking for information on tabs and tab navigation, not on menu items. The 'Tab Windows' page should reference Keyboard Shortcuts (or help pages) that are relevant. Similarly, if configurable, the Keyboard Shortcuts page should
reference the configuration dialog(s) that are relevant. Though this
is one of the Take Command\Configuration Options, it doesn't appear in
that help contents hierarchy. There doesn't appear to be any help
page on that particular dialog itself, just that reference in the
Menus help text.
Well - no. That dialog is not for Tab Windows, it's for configuring menu shortcuts. The fact that one of the menu entries is for Tab Windows doesn't mean that Tab Windows now owns the menu dialog.

This request would mean changing 70+ help pages (everything that could *possibly* have a menu shortcut) to reference the menu dialog, which seems excessive and clumsy.

The Keyboard Shortcuts page has nothing to do with the menu shortcuts dialog.
 
May 20, 2008
450
2
#15
On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 3:16 PM, rconn <> wrote:

> Well - no. That dialog is not for Tab Windows, it's for configuring menu shortcuts. *The fact that one of the menu entries is for Tab Windows doesn't mean that Tab Windows now owns the menu dialog.
I was just trying to point out that this particular Customize dialog
does not appear to have its own help page, that it probably should,
and that it should probably appear in the help content hierarchy under
Take Command\Configuration Options.

I was also trying to point out that the Tab Windows page doesn't
mention which keys control tab navigation though it does mention using
"Alt cursor keys to view text that has scrolled through the window."
Alt-Left and Alt-Right, though being Alt cursor keys, seem to navigate
tabs instead of scroll text.


> The Keyboard Shortcuts page has nothing to do with the menu shortcuts dialog.
The Customize dialog has a 'Keyboard' tab on it, presumably for
configuring keyboard shortcuts that also appear on the Keyboard
Shortcuts page, like Alt-Left and Alt-Right. Or, are you saying that
Alt-Left and Alt-Right will always operate as documented on the
Keyboard Shortcuts help page even if I change in them in the Customize
dialog, Keyboard tab, Tabs category? When I clicked 'Reset All' on
that Keyboard tab, the confirmation dialog mentions "This action will
remove all custom key assignments at the text level." If it only
applies to the menus, I'm not sure what that means.
 
#16
On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 12:05, TimButterfield <> wrote:


> Isn't there a tab index it can go by, incremented as tabs are created,
> kind of like the shell count discussed long ago? It seems an OnKey
> should be able to trap the Alt+Arrow and select the next higher/lower
> tab index/shell count/pid.


The creation tab index wouldn't do it, since the tabs can be drag /
reordered. It's the rendering order that would need to be noticed.

Also, since the tabs can be on the left or right edge, the Alt-Left and
Alt-Right keys are a little odd.

I solve this by never using the mouse to click the tabs (or, on the odd time
that I've clicked one, I click them in order, left-to-right) and I only use
the keyboard which works just fine for me.

Even though I work around it for TCMD, I know that IE 8 (and Chrome 7, but
Rex said that was a poor example) on Windows 7 has multiple tabs, and
regardless of which order I click the tabs, or whether I've drag / reordered
them, Ctrl-Tab and Ctrl-Shift-Tab always move to the next visible left or
right tab.

--
Jim Cook
2010 Sundays: 4/4, 6/6, 8/8, 10/10, 12/12 and 5/9, 9/5, 7/11, 11/7.
Next year they're Monday.
 
May 20, 2008
450
2
#17
On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 3:55 PM, Jim Cook <> wrote:

> The creation tab index wouldn't do it, since the tabs can be drag /
> reordered. It's the rendering order that would need to be noticed.
I'm comfortable with reordering to not match the creation order being
a user choice. Of course, if Rex can track visible left/right order,
so much the better. Just being able to determine and activate tabs
would be a start.


> I solve this by never using the mouse to click the tabs (or, on the odd time
> that I've clicked one, I click them in order, left-to-right) and I only use
> the keyboard which works just fine for me.
Perhaps I need to stop using the mouse for this as well.
 

Charles Dye

Super Moderator
Staff member
May 20, 2008
3,602
46
Albuquerque, NM
prospero.unm.edu
#18
I'm comfortable with reordering to not match the creation order being
a user choice. Of course, if Rex can track visible left/right order,
so much the better. Just being able to determine and activate tabs
would be a start.
If you use Control-Tab and Control-Shift-Tab, the popup dialog will show the list of tabs in (I think) MRU order, along with their current titles. If your tabs have different titles, this is handy. If your tabs all have the same title, maybe not so much.
 
Jun 2, 2008
284
1
Newton, MA
#19
Rex,

I spent a lot of very frustrating time trying to figure out how to
change the keyboard shortcuts for items on the right-click menu (I like
Alt-R to run the selected text). I knew it could be done, because I had
done it in version 11. I tried searching the help system using every
keyword I could think of but could never find the help page that told me
how to do it. Finally, I noticed it by accident one day.

So something should be improved. At the very least, the "Keyboard
Shortcuts" page, since that sounds like the right page, should have a
cross-reference for menu keyboard shortcuts to the "Menus" help page.

-- Jay
 

rconn

Administrator
Staff member
May 14, 2008
10,551
97
#20
Rex,

I spent a lot of very frustrating time trying to figure out how to
change the keyboard shortcuts for items on the right-click menu (I like
Alt-R to run the selected text). I knew it could be done, because I had
done it in version 11. I tried searching the help system using every
keyword I could think of but could never find the help page that told me
how to do it. Finally, I noticed it by accident one day.

So something should be improved. At the very least, the "Keyboard
Shortcuts" page, since that sounds like the right page, should have a
cross-reference for menu keyboard shortcuts to the "Menus" help page.
Not sure what you're referring to here -- there isn't any dialog for creating / changing context menu shortcuts. The menu configuration dialog can create keyboard shortcuts, but they're only usable in context menus if the context menu has the same menu IDs as the main menu.
 
Jun 2, 2008
284
1
Newton, MA
#21
On 11/4/2010 3:11 PM, rconn wrote:

> The menu configuration dialog can create keyboard shortcuts, but they're only usable in context menus if the context menu has the same menu IDs as the main menu.
Well, all of those items -- luckily for me -- are the same as regular
menu items and apparently have the same IDs. I'm talking about "Copy",
"Copy+Paste", and "Copy+Paste+Run". They appear on the context menu for
selected text in the tab window, just as they do in the Edit menu.

But my point applies is general. One should be able to find the help on
configuring shortcut keys for menu items. The cross-reference I
suggested would do that.

-- Jay