1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

NTFS File Streams and ZIP

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Joe Caverly, Oct 12, 2011.

  1. Joe Caverly

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2009
    Messages:
    638
    Likes Received:
    6
    Hi,
    A couple of years ago, while using TCC 11, I mentioned that ZIP would not include the NTFS File Streams contained in a file. I just tried it again in 13.00.26, and I see that is still the case, unless I am doing something wrong.

    Might this be something to consider as a future enhancement for ZIP?

    Joe
     
  2. rconn

    rconn Administrator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    9,722
    Likes Received:
    80
    As I mentioned before, this would require creating a new ZIP format. I
    don't think I'm in a position to unilaterally change the ZIP format and
    expect everybody else to follow along!
     
  3. Joe Caverly

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2009
    Messages:
    638
    Likes Received:
    6
    Why not lead? Heck, you could make the changes, apply for a patent, and everybody else who follows along would then have to pay you royalties.

    Just look at the patents that are being granted to Microsoft.

    Joe
     
  4. DMcCunney

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2008
    Messages:
    96
    Likes Received:
    3
    On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 8:09 PM, Joe Caverly <> wrote:

    The *only* archiver I'm aware of that supports this is RAR. Why do you need to?


    ______
    Dennis
     
  5. Joe Caverly

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2009
    Messages:
    638
    Likes Received:
    6
    I have quite a few documents and spreadsheets containing NTFS File Streams that I presently have to archive using Microsoft Backup, as that is the only method I have found which successfully archives these types of files.

    When I do my daily backup, I have to;


    1. Use Microsoft Backup to backup the files containing NTFS File Streams
    2. Use ZIP to archive the non-NTFS File Streams, along with the file created by Microsoft Backup.
    3. Copy that ZIP file to my backup medium.

    While this process is automated, it would be nice to have all of my files backed up in one ZIP file. That way, when I have to restore a file with NTFS File Streams, I would just have to UNZIP the file, instead of UNZIPping the Microsoft Backup from the ZIP file, and then using Microsoft Backup to restore the file with the NTFS File Streams.

    Joe
     
  6. Kachupp

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2009
    Messages:
    133
    Likes Received:
    0
    : While this process is automated, it would be nice to have all of my files backed up in
    one ZIP file. That
    : way, when I have to restore a file with NTFS File Streams, I would just have to UNZIP
    the file, instead of
    : UNZIPping the Microsoft Backup from the ZIP file, and then using Microsoft Backup to
    restore the file
    : with the NTFS File Streams.

    How bout just using plain old descriptions instead of streams
    CMD can not see streams without a third party tool
     
  7. Joe Caverly

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2009
    Messages:
    638
    Likes Received:
    6
    One of my files, which contains two spreadsheet files, for example, is;

    Code:
    "Line Of Credit.qpw:Projections.qpw"
    
    Not sure how I would store the Projections.qpw file into a plain old description.

    In the Take Command Help v13.0, do a search for NTFS File Streams, which gives a better description of what I am using them for.

    Joe
     
  8. Kachupp

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2009
    Messages:
    133
    Likes Received:
    0
    : One of my files, which contains two spreadsheet files, for example, is;
    :
    :
    : Code:
    : ---------
    : "Line Of Credit.qpw:Projections.qpw"
    : ---------
    : Not sure how I would store the Projections.qpw file into a plain old description.
    :
    : In the Take Command Help v13.0, do a search for _NTFS File Streams_, which gives a
    better
    : description of what I am using them for.

    If it were just a text value then the following would do it
    Describe credit.qpw /d"projections.qpw"

    If it's another binary file stored in the stream then describe couldn't handle it

    My v13 ran out, but I understand that it's not a text value you are storing now :O

    My Apologies Joe
     
  9. Joe Caverly

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2009
    Messages:
    638
    Likes Received:
    6
    No apology necessary.

    It looks like I am one of the few who are using NTFS File Streams to store more than one file. I guess they just never caught on, which is why Microsoft Backup is the only archiving tool than can store them.

    To me, though, they are like a binder, which allows me to have all documents, spreadsheets, etc. for a project in one file.

    Oh well.

    Joe
     
  10. Steve Fabian

    Joined:
    May 20, 2008
    Messages:
    3,523
    Likes Received:
    4
    From: Joe Caverly
    | It looks like I am one of the few who are using NTFS File Streams to
    | store more than one file. I guess they just never caught on, which is
    | why Microsoft Backup is the only archiving tool than can store them.
    |
    | To me, though, they are like a binder, which allows me to have all
    | documents, spreadsheets, etc. for a project in one file.

    That's because directories (folders, and their hierarchies) existed for decades on almost all file systems, and so most of us have used them to keep all documents together, yet be able to control access to each one independently, and maintain their dates and contents with (somewhat) portable software separately. Single commands (or GUI actions) to copy the whole directory or just a selected subset have been available for many years. Most of us just don't try to put more than one document into a single file. Most software could not access them...
    --
    Steve
     
  11. David Marcus

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    Messages:
    646
    Likes Received:
    1
    They are used for special purposes, but did Microsoft or anyone else suggest using them as a binder?
     
  12. DMcCunney

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2008
    Messages:
    96
    Likes Received:
    3
    On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 4:30 PM, David Marcus <> wrote:

    They provided the Microsoft Binder utility, which did something very
    like this, in Office 95/97/2000.
    ______
    Dennis
     
  13. DMcCunney

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2008
    Messages:
    96
    Likes Received:
    3
    On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 3:05 PM, Joe Caverly <> wrote:


    They never caught on.


    Microsoft offered Microsoft Binder, which provided functionality like
    this, as part of Office 95, 97, and 2000. It was originally intended
    as a test host for OLE 2.0, and was discontinued after Office 2000.
    (You can still read .OLB files on Office 2003 if you install a free
    add-on.)

    I've never used the functionality. I use directories, naming
    conventions, shortcuts and other things to keep files that are part of
    particular projects together. Making a backup is normally a matter of
    making an archive of a project directory. I have no need to access or
    preserve the alternate file streams.


    Indeed.

    As an aside, I really prefer using external utilities for such things
    to having them as TCC built-ins. I can write scripts and create
    aliases to customize things as required (like default options passed
    to the programs.) Machines are fast enough that I see no real speed
    difference in calling an external command to perform the action
    instead of using an internal command (the time required to *perform*
    the action will be equivalent), and the external utility may well do
    things an internal doesn't.

    I'm a little bemused by folks who want Rex to add everything
    *including* the kitchen sink to TCC. (But then, I'm an old Unix guy,
    where the shell language was intended as glue to tie together external
    utilities to do this sort of thing. The idea that the *shell* should
    do it might be met by blank incomprehension.)


    ______
    Dennis
     

Share This Page