Declined NTFS File Streams and ZIP

Hi,
A couple of years ago, while using TCC 11, I mentioned that ZIP would not include the NTFS File Streams contained in a file. I just tried it again in 13.00.26, and I see that is still the case, unless I am doing something wrong.

Might this be something to consider as a future enhancement for ZIP?

Joe
 
As I mentioned before, this would require creating a new ZIP format. I
don't think I'm in a position to unilaterally change the ZIP format and
expect everybody else to follow along!

Why not lead? Heck, you could make the changes, apply for a patent, and everybody else who follows along would then have to pay you royalties.

Just look at the patents that are being granted to Microsoft.

Joe
 
Jun 7, 2008
101
5
On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 8:09 PM, Joe Caverly <> wrote:

> Hi,
> *A couple of years ago, while using TCC 11, I mentioned that ZIP would not include the
> NTFS File Streams contained in a file. I just tried it again in 13.00.26, and I see that is
> still the case, unless I am doing something wrong.
>
> *Might this be something to consider as a future enhancement for ZIP?

The *only* archiver I'm aware of that supports this is RAR. Why do you need to?


______
Dennis
 
I have quite a few documents and spreadsheets containing NTFS File Streams that I presently have to archive using Microsoft Backup, as that is the only method I have found which successfully archives these types of files.

When I do my daily backup, I have to;


  1. Use Microsoft Backup to backup the files containing NTFS File Streams
  2. Use ZIP to archive the non-NTFS File Streams, along with the file created by Microsoft Backup.
  3. Copy that ZIP file to my backup medium.

While this process is automated, it would be nice to have all of my files backed up in one ZIP file. That way, when I have to restore a file with NTFS File Streams, I would just have to UNZIP the file, instead of UNZIPping the Microsoft Backup from the ZIP file, and then using Microsoft Backup to restore the file with the NTFS File Streams.

Joe
 
Aug 9, 2009
228
1
: While this process is automated, it would be nice to have all of my files backed up in
one ZIP file. That
: way, when I have to restore a file with NTFS File Streams, I would just have to UNZIP
the file, instead of
: UNZIPping the Microsoft Backup from the ZIP file, and then using Microsoft Backup to
restore the file
: with the NTFS File Streams.

How bout just using plain old descriptions instead of streams
CMD can not see streams without a third party tool
 
:

How bout just using plain old descriptions instead of streams
CMD can not see streams without a third party tool

One of my files, which contains two spreadsheet files, for example, is;

Code:
"Line Of Credit.qpw:Projections.qpw"
Not sure how I would store the Projections.qpw file into a plain old description.

In the Take Command Help v13.0, do a search for NTFS File Streams, which gives a better description of what I am using them for.

Joe
 
Aug 9, 2009
228
1
: One of my files, which contains two spreadsheet files, for example, is;
:
:
: Code:
: ---------
: "Line Of Credit.qpw:Projections.qpw"
: ---------
: Not sure how I would store the Projections.qpw file into a plain old description.
:
: In the Take Command Help v13.0, do a search for _NTFS File Streams_, which gives a
better
: description of what I am using them for.

If it were just a text value then the following would do it
Describe credit.qpw /d"projections.qpw"

If it's another binary file stored in the stream then describe couldn't handle it

My v13 ran out, but I understand that it's not a text value you are storing now :O

My Apologies Joe
 
No apology necessary.

It looks like I am one of the few who are using NTFS File Streams to store more than one file. I guess they just never caught on, which is why Microsoft Backup is the only archiving tool than can store them.

To me, though, they are like a binder, which allows me to have all documents, spreadsheets, etc. for a project in one file.

Oh well.

Joe
 
May 20, 2008
3,515
4
Elkridge, MD, USA
From: Joe Caverly
| It looks like I am one of the few who are using NTFS File Streams to
| store more than one file. I guess they just never caught on, which is
| why Microsoft Backup is the only archiving tool than can store them.
|
| To me, though, they are like a binder, which allows me to have all
| documents, spreadsheets, etc. for a project in one file.

That's because directories (folders, and their hierarchies) existed for decades on almost all file systems, and so most of us have used them to keep all documents together, yet be able to control access to each one independently, and maintain their dates and contents with (somewhat) portable software separately. Single commands (or GUI actions) to copy the whole directory or just a selected subset have been available for many years. Most of us just don't try to put more than one document into a single file. Most software could not access them...
--
Steve
 
Jun 7, 2008
101
5
On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 4:30 PM, David Marcus <> wrote:

> ---Quote (Originally by Joe Caverly)---
> I guess they just never caught on
> ---End Quote---
> They are used for special purposes, but did Microsoft or anyone else suggest using them as a binder?

They provided the Microsoft Binder utility, which did something very
like this, in Office 95/97/2000.
______
Dennis
 
Jun 7, 2008
101
5
On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 3:05 PM, Joe Caverly <> wrote:


> It looks like I am one of the few who are using NTFS File Streams to store more than one file.
> I guess they just never caught on, which is why Microsoft Backup is the only archiving tool than
> can store them.

They never caught on.


> To me, though, they are like a binder, which allows me to have all documents, spreadsheets, etc. for a project in one file.

Microsoft offered Microsoft Binder, which provided functionality like
this, as part of Office 95, 97, and 2000. It was originally intended
as a test host for OLE 2.0, and was discontinued after Office 2000.
(You can still read .OLB files on Office 2003 if you install a free
add-on.)

I've never used the functionality. I use directories, naming
conventions, shortcuts and other things to keep files that are part of
particular projects together. Making a backup is normally a matter of
making an archive of a project directory. I have no need to access or
preserve the alternate file streams.


> Oh well.

Indeed.

As an aside, I really prefer using external utilities for such things
to having them as TCC built-ins. I can write scripts and create
aliases to customize things as required (like default options passed
to the programs.) Machines are fast enough that I see no real speed
difference in calling an external command to perform the action
instead of using an internal command (the time required to *perform*
the action will be equivalent), and the external utility may well do
things an internal doesn't.

I'm a little bemused by folks who want Rex to add everything
*including* the kitchen sink to TCC. (But then, I'm an old Unix guy,
where the shell language was intended as glue to tie together external
utilities to do this sort of thing. The idea that the *shell* should
do it might be met by blank incomprehension.)


______
Dennis
 
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