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Problems opening an app in a tab from the toolbar

Discussion in 'Support' started by odyssey, Oct 27, 2008.

  1. odyssey

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    The helpfile says "A toolbar button can either open a new tab...", but i'm unable to make tc create new tabs this way. Instead the buttons open up cmd.exe windows.

    What went wrong?
     
  2. Steve Fabian

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    JP Software Forums" <neil@jpsoft.com>; "odyssey wrote:
    | The helpfile says "A toolbar button can either open a new tab...",
    | but i'm unable to make tc create new tabs this way. Instead the
    | buttons open up cmd.exe windows.
    |
    | What went wrong?

    Firstly, do you mean windows, or did you mean tabs? I noticed that help
    topic "toolbardlg.htm" uses "window" in many places where "tab" should be
    used. Regardless, the description of "command" tells you that the command
    should explicitly specify the program to be run in the new tab. Did you
    specify TCC.EXE?
    --
    HTH, Steve
     
  3. rconn

    rconn Administrator
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    Steve Fábián wrote:

    I don't see any places where that's true. What specifically are you
    referring to?

    Note that the toolbar buttons will start a separate window for GUI apps
    or a new tab window for a console app, so "window" in this case means
    either type.

    Rex Conn
    JP Software
     
  4. rconn

    rconn Administrator
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    odyssey wrote:

    Impossible to say without knowing exactly what you entered in the
    Command field.

    Rex Conn
    JP Software
     
  5. odyssey

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    I mean exactly what I wrote. I want to launch a console application (by referring to a bat file that launches it) IN A TAB, and reading the helpfile isn't of much help, since it claims that tabs will be launched. Reading further:
    WOW, wait a second, no more mentioning how to launch it in a tab???? It wans't mentioned that it will launch in a window now! And why the heck would I ever WANT it to launch in a window, when I use TC??? I can use windows shortcuts to do that.

    Another related thing: I'm almost sure that I was able to launch a few tabs with my application on startup once, but now I'm not anymore? ....or maybe that was with the older TC i downloaded...?

    Also there's a bug in the tab-toolbar. If I had previously selected an .ico and removed it afterwards wanting to show text instead, the text does not appear.

    ...OMFG, WHEN WILL YOU STOP THE ANTISPAM PROCEDURES????? THEY ARE REAAAAAAALLLLYYY ANNOYING!!!!!
     
  6. Steve Fabian

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    rconn wrote:
    | Steve Fábián wrote:
    | ---Quote---
    || odyssey wrote:
    ||| The helpfile says "A toolbar button can either open a new tab...",
    ||| but i'm unable to make tc create new tabs this way. Instead the
    ||| buttons open up cmd.exe windows.
    |||
    ||| What went wrong?
    ||
    || Firstly, do you mean windows, or did you mean tabs? I noticed that
    || help topic "toolbardlg.htm" uses "window" in many places where "tab"
    || should be used.
    | ---End Quote---
    | I don't see any places where that's true. What specifically are you
    | referring to?
    |
    | Note that the toolbar buttons will start a separate window for GUI
    | apps
    | or a new tab window for a console app, so "window" in this case means
    | either type.

    I have a problem with the phrase "tab window". Tabs and windows are not the
    same. For each instance of TCMD there is only one visible window, regardless
    of how many tabs are open in that window, or how many of the objects that
    Microsoft calls "window" TCMD must deal with to run the display. Each
    stand-alone textual or graphical program instance is displayed in a single
    window (ignoring pop-ups). There is a major visual distinction between
    windows and TCMD tabs. The mechanism a TCMD user needs to create a new tab
    or a new window may be identical, but the concepts are different. IMHO the
    menu should be changed to indicate "start new tab/window" and HELP should
    indicate
    1/ starting a graphical program is always in a new window
    2/ how to start a new text-mode program in a new tab
    3/ how to start a new text-mode program in a new window
    --
    Steve
     
  7. rconn

    rconn Administrator
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    Steve Fábián wrote:

    Not necessarily true - you can have multiple tab windows visible at one
    time.

    A window still exists regardless whether it's fully visible -- a
    minimized window on the taskbar still exists, and a non-selected and
    (optionally) non-visible tab window still exists (even if only its tab
    is visible), and is still running and being updated.

    Rex Conn
    JP Software
     
  8. rconn

    rconn Administrator
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    odyssey wrote:

    If you're specifying a batch file name in the command window, then
    Windows will launch whatever app is associated with the batch file
    extension(s). If you want to force a particular app to run the batch
    file, you need to use that app name. (For example, to start an app
    using TCC even when you've defined CMD as the standard batch file
    handler: "tcc.exe /c batchname ...")

    But it's difficult to give a definitive answer unless you post exactly
    what you're entering.


    Console apps will be started in a new tab. Windows GUI apps will be
    started in a new window.


    You can specify startup tabs in the "Configure Take Command / Tabs" dialog.


    What antispam procedures?

    Rex Conn
    JP Software
     
  9. Steve Fabian

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    rconn wrote:
    | Steve Fábián wrote:
    |
    |
    | ---Quote---
    || I have a problem with the phrase "tab window". Tabs and windows are
    || not the same. For each instance of TCMD there is only one visible
    || window, regardless
    || of how many tabs are open in that window, or how many of the objects
    || that Microsoft calls "window" TCMD must deal with to run the display.
    | ---End Quote---
    | Not necessarily true - you can have multiple tab windows visible at
    | one time.

    Are you referring to the ability to split TCMD's window into more than one
    tab pane? Or to the ability (when enabled through TCMD option dialog) to
    have more than one TCMD instance have its own visible window?
    |
    | A window still exists regardless whether it's fully visible -- a
    | minimized window on the taskbar still exists, and a non-selected and
    | (optionally) non-visible tab window still exists (even if only its tab
    | is visible), and is still running and being updated.

    That's what I was referring to as the "Microsft terminology". As far as the
    ordinary user is concerned, and here I include myself, but probably should
    exclude Vince, TCMD has just one window, which is either minimized or not,
    and if not minimized, is visible unless either occluded by another program's
    window, or moved to an off-screen area. All those other objects you and MS
    calls windows, and the manipulation of which requires the bulk of TCMD's
    code, are just internal parts of TCMD. I'd compare it with an automobile
    engine - for most it's just "an engine", until something goes wrong, and
    even when you go to the mechanic, most people don't know anything about its
    details to understand what they are told is faulty.

    TCMD users are more sophisticated than the ordinary user - or they would not
    have spent money or energy to obtain it. They do understand about the
    difference between tabs and independent windows. I know you have spent
    thousands of hours to develop their mechanics. Regardless, as a user I don't
    care how many visible or invisible windows TCMD must deal with for each tab.
    I don't care whether or not their content is updated when not visible. All I
    care about is that which is visible, including controlling which program's
    operation is currently visible.

    For this reason I recommend a strict distinction between panes, tabs, and
    windows in the documentation. The term "window" ought to be used only for
    objects the user can directly manipulate with mouse or keyboard, minimizing
    or maximizing, moving, resizing, closing, etc. I think it would reduce the
    number of support requests, whether by direct call or by posts in this NG.
    --
    Steve
     
  10. odyssey

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    Okay, so where can I register .bat files to launch with TC? They appearently don't have an "Open with" option as other filetypes. Also, why is this even nessesary, since it wasn't in TCI 2?

    I'm annoyed by your anti-spam procedures... First of all registering:
    1 Enter content of a scrabled image
    2 Enter a verification text
    3 Activate a mail
    AND!
    4 Wait for moderator to accept registration

    Most places uses 1 and 3 which seem to work pretty good, but there's NO reason to use *all* possible anti-spam methods!

    The worst of all, I just got in one of my initial posts where I quoted something that contained "htm", which the spam-engine detected as a webpage and disallowed me to post it before I had made at least 5 posts! It's rediculous!!!!
     
  11. Jim Cook

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    Since you're a new user, you haven't seen the spam problems that were
    caused by people manually following the registrations and then
    spamming the group. I understand that it's a frustrating procedure,
    but the previous one (using 1 and 3) did not in fact work well at all
    here.

    --
    2008 Fridays: 4/4, 6/6, 8/8, 10/10, 12/12 and 5/9, 9/5, 7/11, 11/7.
    Next year they're Saturday.
    Measure wealth by the things you have for which you would not take money.
     
  12. Steve Fabian

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    JP Software Forums" <neil@jpsoft.com>; "odyssey wrote:
    | Okay, so where can I register .bat files to launch with TC? They
    | appearently don't have an "Open with" option as other filetypes.

    The OS defaults .BAT and .CMD to COMMAND.COM and CMD.EXE, resp.

    Use the TCCBATCH.BTM file in your installation directory.

    | I'm annoyed by your anti-spam procedures... First of all registering:
    | 1 Enter content of a scrabled image
    | 2 Enter a verification text
    | 3 Activate a mail
    | AND!
    | 4 Wait for moderator to accept registration
    |
    | Most places uses 1 and 3 which seem to work pretty good, but there's
    | NO reason to use *all* possible anti-spam methods!

    I agree with Jim Cook's response. We had entirely too much spam until the
    new procedures went into effect.
    --
    Steve
     
  13. rconn

    rconn Administrator
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    odyssey wrote:

    Only 2, 3, and 4 are necessary in the forums. #1 was dropped shortly
    after #2 was added.

    We get over 600 registration attempts a day from spambots, and upwards
    of 7000 attempted spam message posts daily. So, there *is* a compelling
    reason -- I doubt you would want to read through 7000 spams in order to
    find an answer to your post.


    It's essential, as that knocks out 99.9% of the remaining spam that
    makes it through the registration process. Once a user is known to be
    valid, the restrictions on posting links is removed.

    Rex Conn
    JP Software
     
  14. odyssey

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    What about my question?
     
  15. Steve Fabian

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    odyssey wrote:
    | ---Quote (Originally by odyssey)---
    | Okay, so where can I register .bat files to launch with TC? They
    | appearently don't have an "Open with" option as other filetypes.
    | Also, why is this even nessesary, since it wasn't in TCI 2? ---End
    | Quote---
    | What about my question?

    Read my previous post in this thread.
    --
    Steve
     
  16. rconn

    rconn Administrator
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    odyssey wrote:

    > appearently don't have an "Open with" option as other filetypes.
    > Also, why is this even nessesary, since it wasn't in TCI 2?

    It's already been answered -- either configure Windows by running
    TCCBATCH, or set the COMSPEC option in the "Configure Take Command /
    Tabs" dialog.

    (It probably worked in TCI because you'd set the COMSPEC option there.)

    Rex Conn
    JP Software
     
  17. odyssey

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    Sorry, I missed that...

    Now it opens up as a TC window, I still can't get eigher my buttons or startup tabs to launch as tabs instead of windows.

    I know for sure that I haven't set it up, so IF it were set, it was done by installation.

    Another thing: Is tccbatch.btm only available for TC - not TCLite?
     
  18. rconn

    rconn Administrator
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    odyssey wrote:

    > buttons or startup tabs to launch as tabs instead of windows.

    Unless you tell us *exactly* what you're doing, it's impossible to
    determine why it isn't working for you.

    Rex Conn
    JP Software
     
  19. odyssey

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    http://jpsoft.com/forums/showthread.php?t=584

    I'm trying to create startup tabs that will launch my cli application in TABS! Also, i'm trying to create buttons that will launch the same cli application IN TABS.

    Title: RB0
    Command: "C:\Documents and Settings\hewi\My Documents\Instanser-bin\RB0.bat"

    All other fields empty.
     
  20. vefatica

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    On Thu, 30 Oct 2008 08:39:38 -0500, "JP Software Forums"
    <neil@jpsoft.com>,odyssey <> wrote:


    A BTM file is not an app. TCMD must start an app (EXE) in a tab. Use:

    Start a new window ... checked.

    Command: [path\]TCC.EXE [/C] "C:\Documents and Settings\hewi\My
    Documents\Instanser-bin\RB0.bat"

    or, if you have COMSPEC set,

    Command: %COMSPEC [/C] "C:\Documents and Settings\hewi\My
    Documents\Instanser-bin\RB0.bat"

    The "/C" (transient) will make the tab close when the BTM file quits.
     
  21. odyssey

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    i need to launch a bat-file, because my cli application won't run unless it's executed from within it's own directory.

    your post is useless - it doesn't explain how i open it in TABS...
     
  22. Jim Cook

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    Perhaps I'm not understanding your problem, so please educate me if I
    misunderstand.

    I made a batch file called test.bat that changes drives and folders to
    where a custom program resides. I think this is similar to what you
    are trying to do.

    I clicked Options \ Configure Tab Toolbar...
    I selected an empty tool box.
    I set the button label to "Test"
    I selected "Send to the current tab"
    I put the next line into the Command box, including all quotes just as-is.
    "start /tab %comspec% /c d:\test.bat" enter

    I Clicked OK to get back to the main window.

    When I click the new "Test" tool, it does start a new tab with my
    program running in the custom folder.

    If this didn't solve your problem, because I've misunderstood, could
    you please give detailed examples of each box to check, fill in, etc.,
    and I'll try to reproduce your issue and give you the best advice I
    can. Showing the contents of your batch file may help.

    In reading some of your posts, it seems you want just the batch file
    to run in a tab, but unlike programs, Windows itself can not run a
    batch file. Batch files are always interpreted by a shell, like
    CMD.EXE or COMMAND.COM or 4NT.EXE or TCC.EXE or other available
    choices.

    In the past, when you were already running a shell like 4NT, you can
    then type in the name of a batch file. Since your shell knows what to
    do when a batch file name is given, the shell then interprets the
    commands in the batch file and you got what you want. When you use
    Windows Explorer and double-click a batch file you'll see that it
    instead launches CMD.EXE in a box. Try making a batch file that just
    says PAUSE and you'll see what I mean.

    Just like Windows can only run programs, TCMD needs some program
    running in each tab. If you want your batch file to be interpreted by
    a shell, as in the past, use the method I've shown here and others
    have shown or hinted at, and it will do just what has always been
    done.

    I hope I've helped.
    --
    2008 Fridays: 4/4, 6/6, 8/8, 10/10, 12/12 and 5/9, 9/5, 7/11, 11/7.
    Next year they're Saturday.
    Measure wealth by the things you have for which you would not take money.
     
  23. vefatica

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    What is the problem? Do you have a batch file that works correctly if you enter its name with the keyboard in an existing tab.

    If not, make one.

    If you do, then several persons have said you to configure a tool bar button to start that batch file in a tab.
     
  24. rconn

    rconn Administrator
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    odyssey wrote:

    You don't need a batch file for that; Take Command lets you specify the
    startup directory for an app.

    Rex Conn
    JP Software
     
  25. odyssey

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    I put this in Command:
    "start /tab %comspec% /c "C:\Documents and Settings\hewi\My Documents\Instanser-bin\RB0.bat"" 13

    but I get error:

    "A device attached to the system is not functioning. "AttachConsole""

    I suspect I will run into problems if I try to launch a button with this command, and the current tab already has launched my application.

    I noticed in TCI, that it has a "Start new tab" option. That makes sense if you ask me, instead of these weird hacks.

    Also, if I specify my batch file in Properties > Tabs in the tabs, they open up as windows, but appearently through TCC shell. Quite odd, right???
     
  26. odyssey

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    Oh yeah, it's almost not buggy... It strips quotes and disregards if the path contains spaces, which ultimatively results in error.

    As a GUI side-note, it's illogical that theres no link to the tab toolbar properties when you rightclick a button.
     
  27. logic

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    From: JP Software Forums [mailto:neil@jpsoft.com]
    Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 7:39 AM
    Subject: RE: [Support-t-585] Problems opening an app in a tab from the
    toolbar


    This is off-topic, but this makes me think of Google Chrome -- specifically,
    how does its design fit into your tabs/windows distinction? :-)

    Jonathan Gilbert
     
  28. Steve Fabian

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    logic wrote:
    | ---Quote---
    || I have a problem with the phrase "tab window".
    | ---End Quote---
    | This is off-topic, but this makes me think of Google Chrome --
    | specifically, how does its design fit into your tabs/windows
    | distinction? :-)

    No idea what Google Chrome is. I use Firefox as my browser, wherein there is
    a strict dichotomy of tabs and windows. Until the phrase appeared in this
    thread, I had neither heard nor seen the phrase "tab window".

    In my simpleminded logic a window is associated with either a tab-bar or a
    system tray icon, and can be resized, moved, minimized, maximized, etc. The
    window may be partially or fully occluded by other windows, and it may
    occlude other windows. Multiple tabs may exist in a single window, each of
    which can be closed without the window itself disappearing, unless the tab
    manager has an option to close the window if no tab is active. In this
    respect it is irrelevant what the association of programs running is to tabs
    or windows.

    Some programs I use divide a window into subwindows, and display different
    objects therein. In such a case the whole window is still subject to the
    same display rules, so that only one part of one subwindow is displayed due
    to sizing.

    In all of the above situations occlusion of one window by another does not
    affect the arrangement of subwindows or tabs within the window.

    Other definitions of windows, subwindows and tabs are conceivable. As one
    who deals mostly with text, and only occasionally with images (mostly with
    photographs) I have not used such programs.
     
  29. logic

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    From: JP Software Forums [mailto:neil@jpsoft.com]
    Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 6:55 PM
    Subject: RE: [Support-t-585] Problems opening an app in a tab from the
    toolbar


    Ah :-) You should give Google Chrome a try. It really mixes things up.
    Basically, the topmost (outermost) part of the window frame is not a menu or
    an array of buttons, but the tab bar. Every tab is self-contained with its
    own tool bar and address bar, and tabs can be dragged from one frame to
    another. If you pick up a tab and drop it in the middle of nowhere, it makes
    a new frame for it on-the-fly.

    It's very impressive :-)

    Jonathan Gilbert
     

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