TCMD 11.0.28 does not open its window

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#1
Just downloaded tcmd 11.00.28. Installed into new directory. Ensured all instances of v10 and shralias are closed. TCC 11 can be run, but TCMD 11 just sits there and wont open its window.

ver /r (in TCC)
TCC 11.00.28 Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
TCC Build 28 Windows XP Build 2600 Service Pack 3

If I examine TCMD using (MS/SysInternals) Process Explorer it shows with a very small amount of CPU used, 1 thread and the stack for that thread is

ntkrnlpa.exe+0x6e946
ntkrnlpa.exe!RtlUpcaseUnicodeString+0xbe
ntdll.dll!KiFastSystemCallRet
USER32.dll!SendMessageTimeoutW+0x21
SHLWAPI.dll!Ordinal433+0x36
SHELL32.dll!SHCreateQueryCancelAutoPlayMoniker+0x39af
tcmd.exe!CPUUsage+0x20d4
tcmd.exe!CPUUsage+0x18d0
tcmd.exe+0x1a5b69
tcmd.exe+0x187ba5
kernel32.dll!RegisterWaitForInputIdle+0x49
 
#2
OK, so now I've figured out what is going on. I have some suspended processes. This can be done with either Process Explorer, pssuspend or several other utilities. If any process is suspended TCMD blocks and will not open its window. If the processes are resumed, the window opens and it is OK from then on (even if the processes are suspended again).

Can anything be done to fix this problem?
 

dim

Dimitry Andric
May 31, 2008
203
0
Netherlands
#3
On 2009-10-21 12:03, Péter Köves wrote:

> OK, so now I've figured out what is going on. I have some suspended processes. This can be done with either Process Explorer, pssuspend or several other utilities. If any process is suspended TCMD blocks and will not open its window. If the processes are resumed, the window opens and it is OK from then on (even if the processes are suspended again).
>
> Can anything be done to fix this problem?
Don't suspend those other processes? :)

Seriously, if you suspend the wrong processes, everything in Windows
will hang, for example if you suspend some system programs that hook
several system functions. Try suspending your virus scanner engine for
example...
 
#4
On 2009-10-21 12:03, Péter Köves wrote:



Don't suspend those other processes? :)

Seriously, if you suspend the wrong processes, everything in Windows
will hang, for example if you suspend some system programs that hook
several system functions. Try suspending your virus scanner engine for
example...
Note that I said any process being suspend produces this behaviour. I know what I am doing (more or less ;)). The particular process I have suspended cause no problems for any other programs or windows.
 

rconn

Administrator
Staff member
May 14, 2008
10,157
86
#5
> OK, so now I've figured out what is going on. I have some suspended
> processes. This can be done with either Process Explorer, pssuspend or
> several other utilities. If any process is suspended TCMD blocks and
> will not open its window. If the processes are resumed, the window
> opens and it is OK from then on (even if the processes are suspended
> again).
>
> Can anything be done to fix this problem?
Probably not, as it's Windows that's blocking, not TCMD.

I've tried suspending some processes here but cannot reproduce your problem.
Are you seeing this with *any* process, or specific ones? Does it behave
the same way in v10?

Rex Conn
JP Software
 
#6
Probably not, as it's Windows that's blocking, not TCMD.

I've tried suspending some processes here but cannot reproduce your problem.
Are you seeing this with *any* process, or specific ones? Does it behave
the same way in v10?

Rex Conn
JP Software
1. I've tried with others, e.g. Firefox ans Winword.
2. This does not happen with v10.

BTW one obvious difference between v10 and v11 is that v11 has the evaluation version dialogue (and I'm betting your v11 does not :)). Of course, if in fact that turns out to be the issue, I'll be able to live with that as long as it is not present in the registered version.
 
#7
I see this problem with TCMD in V9, V10 and V11.

I started winword.exe and used procexp to suspend it.
Then Start \ Run \ C:\4NT11\TCMD.EXE and the process does get created.
However, until I resume winword, there is no GUI visible.

Starting TCC.EXE, Excel, Google Earth, Chrome, NI-Spy, Control Panel,
Event Viewer, work just fine. Other than the three versions of TCMD, I
haven't found anything else that fails to launch and work normally.

2009/10/21 Péter Köves <>:

> ---Quote (Originally by rconn)---
> Probably not, as it's Windows that's blocking, not TCMD.
>
> I've tried suspending some processes here but cannot reproduce your problem.
> Are you seeing this with *any* process, or specific ones? *Does it behave
> the same way in v10?
>
> Rex Conn
> JP Software
> ---End Quote---
> 1. I've tried with others, e.g. Firefox ans Winword.
> 2. This does not happen with v10.
>
> BTW one obvious difference between *v10 and v11 is that v11 has the evaluation version dialogue (and I'm betting your v11 does not :)). Of course, if in fact that turns out to be the issue, I'll be able to live with that as long as it is not present in the registered version.
>
>
>
>
>


--
Jim Cook
2009 Saturdays: 4/4, 6/6, 8/8, 10/10, 12/12 and 5/9, 9/5, 7/11, 11/7.
Next year they're Sunday.
 
May 29, 2008
521
3
Groton, CT
#8
I see this problem with TCMD in V9, V10 and V11.

I started winword.exe and used procexp to suspend it.
Then Start \ Run \ C:\4NT11\TCMD.EXE and the process does get created.
However, until I resume winword, there is no GUI visible.

Starting TCC.EXE, Excel, Google Earth, Chrome, NI-Spy, Control Panel,
Event Viewer, work just fine. Other than the three versions of TCMD, I
haven't found anything else that fails to launch and work normally.

2009/10/21 Péter Köves <>:

Me too.

Using Process Explorer, I suspended an arbitrary process, then double-clicked on the TC icon for V11 build 28. Nothing happened. Process Explorer did not show a TCMD process.

Then I resumed the suspended process, and Process Explorer immediately showed the TCMD process and I got the warning window indicating that the trial license would expire in 11 days.
 
#9
...
Then I resumed the suspended process, and Process Explorer immediately showed the TCMD process and I got the warning window indicating that the trial license would expire in 11 days.
For me it does not behave in quite the same way. The trial license dialogue comes up, the process shows up in Process Explorer but makes no further progress after the dialogue is dismissed. Once the suspended processes are resumed, the TCMD window comes up normally.
 

rconn

Administrator
Staff member
May 14, 2008
10,157
86
#10
> ---Quote (Originally by dcantor)---
> ...
> Then I resumed the suspended process, and Process Explorer immediately
> showed the TCMD process and I got the warning window indicating that
> the trial license would expire in 11 days.
> ---End Quote---
> For me it does not behave in quite the same way. The trial license
> dialogue comes up, the process shows up in Process Explorer but makes
> no further progress after the dialogue is dismissed. Once the suspended
> processes are resumed, the TCMD window comes up normally.
I've tried it here on three systems with three different Windows versions
(XP, Server 2008, and Windows 7), with registered and trial versions, and
cannot reproduce it anywhere.

Rex Conn
JP Software
 

rconn

Administrator
Staff member
May 14, 2008
10,157
86
#11
Just downloaded tcmd 11.00.28. Installed into new directory. Ensured all instances of v10 and shralias are closed. TCC 11 can be run, but TCMD 11 just sits there and wont open its window.

ver /r (in TCC)
TCC 11.00.28 Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
TCC Build 28 Windows XP Build 2600 Service Pack 3

If I examine TCMD using (MS/SysInternals) Process Explorer it shows with a very small amount of CPU used, 1 thread and the stack for that thread is

ntkrnlpa.exe+0x6e946
ntkrnlpa.exe!RtlUpcaseUnicodeString+0xbe
ntdll.dll!KiFastSystemCallRet
USER32.dll!SendMessageTimeoutW+0x21
SHLWAPI.dll!Ordinal433+0x36
SHELL32.dll!SHCreateQueryCancelAutoPlayMoniker+0x39af
tcmd.exe!CPUUsage+0x20d4
tcmd.exe!CPUUsage+0x18d0
tcmd.exe+0x1a5b69
tcmd.exe+0x187ba5
kernel32.dll!RegisterWaitForInputIdle+0x49
All that TCMD is doing there is querying Windows for system performance information (via NtQuerySystemInformation) and getting the number of processors (GetSystemInfo). In both cases, it's Windows APIs, not TCMD code.

The same routine is also called in TCC, but not at startup. If you do a "echo %_cpu" in TCC with a suspended app, does TCC hang?
 
#12
echo %_cpu does not hang here. I have reproduced the same thing
suspending Chrome or UltraStudio as well.

TCC 11.00.28 Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
TCC Build 28 Windows XP Build 2600 Service Pack 3
Registered to Jim Cook


I have two threads:

tcmd.exe+0x187c10

ntkrnlpa.exe!NtBuildNumber+0x43
ntkrnlpa.exe!MmIsDriverVerifying+0xbb0
ntkrnlpa.exe!MmIsDriverVerifying+0x1492
win32k.sys+0x2f35
win32k.sys!EngCreateBitmap+0x9428
win32k.sys!EngDeleteSurface+0x906
win32k.sys!EngGradientFill+0x104c
win32k.sys!EngGetCurrentCodePage+0x377a
win32k.sys!EngGradientFill+0xfc6
win32k.sys!EngDeleteSurface+0x6f8
win32k.sys!EngLockSurface+0x56e
win32k.sys!EngGetCurrentCodePage+0x4959
win32k.sys!EngDeleteSurface+0x147a
win32k.sys!EngFreeUserMem+0x5c38
ntkrnlpa.exe!KeSynchronizeExecution+0x30c
ntdll.dll!KiFastSystemCallRet
USER32.dll!SendMessageTimeoutW+0x21
SHLWAPI.dll!Ordinal433+0x36
SHELL32.dll!SHCreateQueryCancelAutoPlayMoniker+0x39af
tcmd.exe!CPUUsage+0x20d4
tcmd.exe!CPUUsage+0x18d0
tcmd.exe+0x1a5b69
tcmd.exe+0x187ba5
kernel32.dll!RegisterWaitForInputIdle+0x49


ADVAPI32.dll!WmiFreeBuffer+0xa7
ntkrnlpa.exe!NtBuildNumber+0x43
ntkrnlpa.exe!MmIsDriverVerifying+0xbb0
ntkrnlpa.exe!MmIsDriverVerifying+0x1492
ntkrnlpa.exe!PoShutdownBugCheck+0x39e9
ntkrnlpa.exe!KeSynchronizeExecution+0x30c
ntdll.dll!KiFastSystemCallRet
ADVAPI32.dll!WmiFreeBuffer+0x24e
kernel32.dll!GetModuleFileNameA+0x1ba



On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 9:14 AM, rconn <> wrote:

> ---Quote (Originally by Péter Köves)---
> Just downloaded tcmd 11.00.28. Installed into new directory. Ensured all instances of v10 and shralias are closed. TCC 11 can be run, but TCMD 11 just sits there and wont open its window.
>
> ver /r (in TCC)
> TCC 11.00.28 Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
> TCC Build 28 Windows XP Build 2600 Service Pack 3
>
> If I examine TCMD using (MS/SysInternals) Process Explorer it shows with a very small amount of CPU used, 1 thread and the stack for that thread is
>
> ntkrnlpa.exe+0x6e946
> ntkrnlpa.exe!RtlUpcaseUnicodeString+0xbe
> ntdll.dll!KiFastSystemCallRet
> USER32.dll!SendMessageTimeoutW+0x21
> SHLWAPI.dll!Ordinal433+0x36
> SHELL32.dll!SHCreateQueryCancelAutoPlayMoniker+0x39af
> tcmd.exe!CPUUsage+0x20d4
> tcmd.exe!CPUUsage+0x18d0
> tcmd.exe+0x1a5b69
> tcmd.exe+0x187ba5
> kernel32.dll!RegisterWaitForInputIdle+0x49
> ---End Quote---
>
> All that TCMD is doing there is querying Windows for system performance information (via NtQuerySystemInformation) and getting the number of processors (GetSystemInfo). *In both cases, it's Windows APIs, not TCMD code.
>
> The same routine is also called in TCC, but not at startup. *If you do a "echo %_cpu" in TCC with a suspended app, does TCC hang?
>
>
>
>
>


--
Jim Cook
2009 Saturdays: 4/4, 6/6, 8/8, 10/10, 12/12 and 5/9, 9/5, 7/11, 11/7.
Next year they're Sunday.
 

rconn

Administrator
Staff member
May 14, 2008
10,157
86
#13
> echo %_cpu does not hang here. I have reproduced the same thing
> suspending Chrome or UltraStudio as well.
I tried Chrome and cannot reproduce a hang.

Since this is (1) unreproducible here; (2) Windows code, not TCMD or TCC;
(3) only occurs when the user is doing something rather unusual; and (4) has
apparently been behaving this way (on some systems) for several years
without anybody noticing, I'm not going to spend any more time on it for
v11. I'll put it in the list to look at again in a future version (if it
can be reproduced then).

Rex Conn
JP Software
 
#14
I've observed what some others have observed. If TCMD is started while WinWord.exe is suspended, it doesn't show. The TCMD process shows in TaskMgr, but no associated TCCs.

When in the same situation I start TCMD from WinDbg I see

MOD LOAD: IsLicense40.dll
The debugee is running

When the suspended WinWord is resumed, TCMD continues:

MOD LOAD: UXTheme.dll
[everything normal after this]

It would seem the loading of one of those two DLLs has something to with the behavior ... no guesses here.

I have also noticed that Explorer and PowerPro can also "hang" until WinWord is resumed. For example, with WinWord suspended, I can Explorer-navigate to e:\users\vefatica\Favorites but Explorer does not respond if I double-click a link. Similarly, PowerPro can't open a favs link (I'm pretty sure it tries with ShellExecute[Ex]). In either caes, the action happens later, when WinWord is resumed.

As far as I know, the only way to "suspend" a process is to individually suspend each of its threads. I'm not surprised that this has unexpected consequences.
 
#15
As far as I know, the only way to "suspend" a process is to individually suspend each of its threads. I'm not surprised that this has unexpected consequences.
Yes, that's what the utilities I'm using seem to be doing. I've already noticed that when one or more processes are suspended, Windows won't standby or hibernate. I guess I can hope that the behaviour goes away for the registred version of v11. I already have a perl script which resumes suspended processes, does the standby/hibernate and then resuspends. I guess I'll be adapt that to launch TCMD if necessary.
 
#16
Just downloaded tcmd 11.00.28. Installed into new directory. Ensured all instances of v10 and shralias are closed. TCC 11 can be run, but TCMD 11 just sits there and wont open its window.

ver /r (in TCC)
TCC 11.00.28 Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
TCC Build 28 Windows XP Build 2600 Service Pack 3

If I examine TCMD using (MS/SysInternals) Process Explorer it shows with a very small amount of CPU used, 1 thread and the stack for that thread is

ntkrnlpa.exe+0x6e946
ntkrnlpa.exe!RtlUpcaseUnicodeString+0xbe
ntdll.dll!KiFastSystemCallRet
USER32.dll!SendMessageTimeoutW+0x21
SHLWAPI.dll!Ordinal433+0x36
SHELL32.dll!SHCreateQueryCancelAutoPlayMoniker+0x39af
tcmd.exe!CPUUsage+0x20d4
tcmd.exe!CPUUsage+0x18d0
tcmd.exe+0x1a5b69
tcmd.exe+0x187ba5
kernel32.dll!RegisterWaitForInputIdle+0x49
I am happy to report that the 11.00.30 (Registered) no longer exhibits this problem on my system.